Opinions and suspictions (*Possible Spoilers*)

Austinpwns2013 wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:...You guys DO know that all the changes are not ones Derrick is solely responsible for, that Dwayne was probably in on many of them, and that the OV team was hired explicitly to do this?

Just making sure.

Do you honestly thing after watching UAF that OV would have been done 100% this way where Dwayne still with us?

No I don't thing that. I do however, think that Dwayne's presence wouldn't have changed many of these changes.

AT the very least things would have been better executed with Dwayne around. Bens personality change from AF to UA gets touched on more that once for example. Dwayne didn't just CHANGE things he explained the changes and made them make SENSE. Its better story telling then "yea forget that episode it never happened."

...UAF did that all the time, though.

Name three that where never explained or explored at some pont?.

datdude wrote:

Austinpwns2013 wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:...You guys DO know that all the changes are not ones Derrick is solely responsible for, that Dwayne was probably in on many of them, and that the OV team was hired explicitly to do this?

Just making sure.

Do you honestly thing after watching UAF that OV would have been done 100% this way where Dwayne still with us?

No I don't thing that. I do however, think that Dwayne's presence wouldn't have changed many of these changes.

AT the very least things would have been better executed with Dwayne around. Bens personality change from AF to UA gets touched on more that once for example. Dwayne didn't just CHANGE things he explained the changes and made them make SENSE. Its better story telling then "yea forget that episode it never happened."

...UAF did that all the time, though.

Name three that where never explained or explored at some pont?.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to point out that I was referring to the "yea forget that episode it never happened" part. UAF did this constantly. If not entire episodes, then pretty essential parts in the episodes. Heck, sometimes they'd erase their own continuity, like when Kevin mentioned he never met his father, then the UAF crew changed their minds all of the sudden.

Austinpwns2013 wrote:

datdude wrote:

Austinpwns2013 wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:...You guys DO know that all the changes are not ones Derrick is solely responsible for, that Dwayne was probably in on many of them, and that the OV team was hired explicitly to do this?

Just making sure.

Do you honestly thing after watching UAF that OV would have been done 100% this way where Dwayne still with us?

No I don't thing that. I do however, think that Dwayne's presence wouldn't have changed many of these changes.

AT the very least things would have been better executed with Dwayne around. Bens personality change from AF to UA gets touched on more that once for example. Dwayne didn't just CHANGE things he explained the changes and made them make SENSE. Its better story telling then "yea forget that episode it never happened."

...UAF did that all the time, though.

Name three that where never explained or explored at some pont?.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to point out that I was referring to the "yea forget that episode it never happened" part. UAF did this constantly. If not entire episodes, then pretty essential parts in the episodes. Heck, sometimes they'd erase their own continuity, like when Kevin mentioned he never met his father, then the UAF crew changed their minds all of the sudden.

Thats one, two more please.

datdude wrote:

Austinpwns2013 wrote:

datdude wrote:

Austinpwns2013 wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:...You guys DO know that all the changes are not ones Derrick is solely responsible for, that Dwayne was probably in on many of them, and that the OV team was hired explicitly to do this?

Just making sure.

Do you honestly thing after watching UAF that OV would have been done 100% this way where Dwayne still with us?

No I don't thing that. I do however, think that Dwayne's presence wouldn't have changed many of these changes.

AT the very least things would have been better executed with Dwayne around. Bens personality change from AF to UA gets touched on more that once for example. Dwayne didn't just CHANGE things he explained the changes and made them make SENSE. Its better story telling then "yea forget that episode it never happened."

...UAF did that all the time, though.

Name three that where never explained or explored at some pont?.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to point out that I was referring to the "yea forget that episode it never happened" part. UAF did this constantly. If not entire episodes, then pretty essential parts in the episodes. Heck, sometimes they'd erase their own continuity, like when Kevin mentioned he never met his father, then the UAF crew changed their minds all of the sudden.

Thats one, two more please.

Grandpa Max not realizing Kevin was his former partner's son, as well as him not telling his grand kids that their own grandmother is an overpowered energy being from outer space.

This next one isn't very important, but in the original series, Gwen was able to fly, but in UAF she couldn't.

Okay datdude, name 3 changes that are unexplained in Omniverse by the time it ends.
Oh wait. You can't. It hasn't ended yet, weird. I guess it isn't logical to compare the dozens of rationalized retcons UAF pulled to the ones OV has tried to correct hmm.


Okay, name 3 changes that are unexplained right now.

Ben 10 is a show that has existed for what... Over 7 years? The show, I believe we all can agree, is overall, great. Although there have been some continuity changes this is to be expected. First of all, it is a cartoon. This is not the only show where drastic changes have been made in a cartoon universe. Secondly, the staff is continuously changing. Even though many of us have been fans for years, and it may be difficult for us to overlook some details of the show, the staff can do whatever they want. This includes kicking entire episodes out of continuity. Although I don't agree with many of the changes that are made, I think that we can't change these things. I believe that we should focus on the good aspects of the show and not let these things change our opinion of the show or our opinion of each other.

P.S. I am not taking anyone's side. Just trying to point out the way I see it.

Austinpwns2013 wrote:

Grandpa Max not realizing Kevin was his former partner's son, as well as him not telling his grand kids that their own grandmother is an overpowered energy being from outer space.

This next one isn't very important, but in the original series, Gwen was able to fly, but in UAF she couldn't.

Grandpa max always kept secrets thats not a change its them being consistent. Gwen couldnt fly in Tos . . . but for some reason when they picked TOS continuity back up again with "destroy all aliens" young gwen could all of a sudden. Not as easy as omniverse to find the holes is it?

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:Okay datdude, name 3 changes that are unexplained in Omniverse by the time it ends.
Oh wait. You can't. It hasn't ended yet, weird. I guess it isn't logical to compare the dozens of rationalized retcons UAF pulled to the ones OV has tried to correct hmm.


Okay, name 3 changes that are unexplained right now.

1.) Magister Prior Gilhil said "I shut down plumber operations on earth 5 years ago" when 4 years ago max had a base full of plumbers.

2.) The removal of Primus. It didn't blow up it wasn't decommissioned the new omnitrix doesnt have a a different way to store stuff primus just never happened.

3.) in UAF albedo operating a knock off omnitrix almost ripped a whole in the universe when he got close to ben but kiber and company have been running the nemitrix for 4 years with no such issues.

verbomaniac wrote:Ben 10 is a show that has existed for what... Over 7 years? The show, I believe we all can agree, is overall, great. Although there have been some continuity changes this is to be expected. First of all, it is a cartoon. This is not the only show where drastic changes have been made in a cartoon universe. Secondly, the staff is continuously changing. Even though many of us have been fans for years, and it may be difficult for us to overlook some details of the show, the staff can do whatever they want. This includes kicking entire episodes out of continuity. Although I don't agree with many of the changes that are made, I think that we can't change these things. I believe that we should focus on the good aspects of the show and not let these things change our opinion of the show or our opinion of each other.

P.S. I am not taking anyone's side. Just trying to point out the way I see it.

verbomaniac Your a lot smater then anyone else involved in this myself included.

Grandpa max always kept secrets thats not a change its them being consistent.

Fair enough, I suppose. Not quite the point I was trying to make, but I see what you're saying.

Not as easy as omniverse to find the holes is it?

I can't think of that many plot holes with OV, personally.

Ben 10 is a show that has existed for what... Over 7 years? The show, I believe we all can agree, is overall, great. Although there have been some continuity changes this is to be expected. First of all, it is a cartoon. This is not the only show where drastic changes have been made in a cartoon universe. Secondly, the staff is continuously changing. Even though many of us have been fans for years, and it may be difficult for us to overlook some details of the show, the staff can do whatever they want. This includes kicking entire episodes out of continuity. Although I don't agree with many of the changes that are made, I think that we can't change these things. I believe that we should focus on the good aspects of the show and not let these things change our opinion of the show or our opinion of each other.

P.S. I am not taking anyone's side. Just trying to point out the way I see it.

True. I mean, we could argue all night about flaws in the Ben 10 franchise, but that wouldn't accomplish much. I like all of the Ben 10 series, but OV is particularly rewarding for me because it has aspects of the show I've wanted to see explored for a while now.

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:Okay datdude, name 3 changes that are unexplained in Omniverse by the time it ends.
Oh wait. You can't. It hasn't ended yet, weird. I guess it isn't logical to compare the dozens of rationalized retcons UAF pulled to the ones OV has tried to correct hmm.


Okay, name 3 changes that are unexplained right now.

1.) Magister Prior Gilhil said "I shut down plumber operations on earth 5 years ago" when 4 years ago max had a base full of plumbers.

2.) The removal of Primus. It didn't blow up it wasn't decommissioned the new omnitrix doesnt have a a different way to store stuff primus just never happened.

3.) in UAF albedo operating a knock off omnitrix almost ripped a whole in the universe when he got close to ben but kiber and company have been running the nemitrix for 4 years with no such issues.

1)Granted, but that is not necessarily a change OV brought on its own. We had indication of Plumber activity on earth after the OS before that.

2)Yes it does. The Omnitrid stores DNA where it always has. Which is. Itself. It's not an unexplained change. It's been clarified that Primus was erased from continuity.

3)"Knock off Omnitrix" is not an accurate descriptor of the Nemetrix. It's not meant to be an Omnitrix like the one Albedo built, it's a separate device built on the frame of an Omnitrix--It's not trying to imitate it.

Meh, I never considered AF/UA to be in canon with the OS, a jumping off point and influence not necessarily canon, probably an alternate universe.

The original series had tons of unexplained plot points that were fun to use in AF/UA and built some rules to play off.

I don't even consider OV canon to AF/UA from what I've seen, partly because it's too silly and like some of the later UA episodes, it feels like they threw there series mythology and bible out the window and took fanfic ideas.

I think the biggest problem with OV is that it tries to reconciles scifi with urban fantasy and it comes off a little squeaky and the "only now matters" vibe datdude mentioned.

There were never any rules for how magic worked in the OS, it would've been fine if there was an actual explanation or can play off the rules already established and if there's not supposed to be one, the show might as well be urban fantasy like the comic Fables or fairy tales, cartoons.

You can't keep the mystery of urban legends like Big foot and witches in a story while trying to utilize scifi mechanics, it turns the viewer upside the head.


Also if anyone on the forum remembered the explanation in Ben 10,000 Returns, though I doubt anyone actual cares.

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:
3)"Knock off Omnitrix" is not an accurate descriptor of the Nemetrix. It's not meant to be an Omnitrix like the one Albedo built, it's a separate device built on the frame of an Omnitrix--It's not trying to imitate it.

It is technically a knock off Omnitrix. One based on the original prototype. http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/392154952186754648

ultraalien wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:
3)"Knock off Omnitrix" is not an accurate descriptor of the Nemetrix. It's not meant to be an Omnitrix like the one Albedo built, it's a separate device built on the frame of an Omnitrix--It's not trying to imitate it.

It is technically a knock off Omnitrix. One based on the original prototype. http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/392154952186754648

Yes, it is based on the Omnitrix, but it is not an Omnitix. It serves a very different purpose and functions much differently.

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

ultraalien wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:
3)"Knock off Omnitrix" is not an accurate descriptor of the Nemetrix. It's not meant to be an Omnitrix like the one Albedo built, it's a separate device built on the frame of an Omnitrix--It's not trying to imitate it.

It is technically a knock off Omnitrix. One based on the original prototype. http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/392154952186754648

Yes, it is based on the Omnitrix, but it is not an Omnitix. It serves a very different purpose and functions much differently.

Yes a modified version of the Omnitrix just like how Ben's current Omnitrix is different from the original prototype.

ultraalien wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

ultraalien wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:
3)"Knock off Omnitrix" is not an accurate descriptor of the Nemetrix. It's not meant to be an Omnitrix like the one Albedo built, it's a separate device built on the frame of an Omnitrix--It's not trying to imitate it.

It is technically a knock off Omnitrix. One based on the original prototype. http://www.formspring.me/DerrickJWyatt/q/392154952186754648

Yes, it is based on the Omnitrix, but it is not an Omnitix. It serves a very different purpose and functions much differently.

Yes a modified version of the Omnitrix just like how Ben's current Omnitrix is different from the original prototype.

Except. Ben's Omnitrix is an Omnitrix. And the Nemetrix is a Nemetrix. What exactly is the big whoop here.

Definition of knock-off from thefreedictionary.com-
"To copy or imitate, especially without permission"

The Nemetrix could be considered an imitation of the Omnitrix in that it is a device, with a dial, worn, that is capable of turning it's wearer into various species, one at a time, at will, that was made based off the original Omnitrix prototype.

Personally I don't care either way, but I was curious and thought I'd share.

We are 16-17 episodes into the 60 or so this series has ordered. Do you think we have any changes in store?

Id kind of like more episodes about 11 year old ben. This show seems to be better with him then the 16 year old version imho.

Anyone else have anything they'd like to see?

datdude wrote:We are 16-17 episodes into the 60 or so this series has ordered. Do you think we have any changes in store?

Id kind of like more episodes about 11 year old ben. This show seems to be better with him then the 16 year old version imho.

Anyone else have anything they'd like to see?

More 11 year old Gwen.

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:We are 16-17 episodes into the 60 or so this series has ordered. Do you think we have any changes in store?

Id kind of like more episodes about 11 year old ben. This show seems to be better with him then the 16 year old version imho.

Anyone else have anything they'd like to see?

More 11 year old Gwen.

Ditto, I miss Gwen in general.

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:We are 16-17 episodes into the 60 or so this series has ordered. Do you think we have any changes in store?

Id kind of like more episodes about 11 year old ben. This show seems to be better with him then the 16 year old version imho.

Anyone else have anything they'd like to see?

More 11 year old Gwen.

Ditto, I miss Gwen in general.

No see
11 year old Gwen is teh sexeh

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:We are 16-17 episodes into the 60 or so this series has ordered. Do you think we have any changes in store?

Id kind of like more episodes about 11 year old ben. This show seems to be better with him then the 16 year old version imho.

Anyone else have anything they'd like to see?

More 11 year old Gwen.

Ditto, I miss Gwen in general.

No see
11 year old Gwen is teh sexeh

I'm hoping you mean that as a euphemism, like cool or awesome.

I do see that trick she used in "destroy all aliens" where shes flies by standing on her forcefield. I wonder if they didn't use that in uaf because that stupid fantastic four cartoon was out at the time and sue storm used to do that.

datdude wrote:We are 16-17 episodes into the 60 or so this series has ordered. Do you think we have any changes in store?

Id kind of like more episodes about 11 year old ben. This show seems to be better with him then the 16 year old version imho.

Anyone else have anything they'd like to see?

nope i prefer 16 year old ben by a bunch.

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:We are 16-17 episodes into the 60 or so this series has ordered. Do you think we have any changes in store?

Id kind of like more episodes about 11 year old ben. This show seems to be better with him then the 16 year old version imho.

Anyone else have anything they'd like to see?

More 11 year old Gwen.

Ditto, I miss Gwen in general.

No see
11 year old Gwen is teh sexeh

I'm hoping you mean that as a euphemism, like cool or awesome.

I do see that trick she used in "destroy all aliens" where shes flies by standing on her forcefield. I wonder if they didn't use that in uaf because that stupid fantastic four cartoon was out at the time and sue storm used to do that.

I don't, but believe whatever makes you comfortable I guess.

Moving on . . .


I also hope I'm wrong about omniverse and their more to this show then meet the else to quote a giant robot. I mean adventure time went for god knows how many episodes before the big questions in all that fans minds turned to the back story.

I've realized the past week or so that a lot of my problem "with the show" came from how Derek J Wyatt answers questions on forum spring. It was wrong of me to take one guy being a jerk on the internet out on an entire show.

So I'm going to give omniverse to the halfway point ( episode 30 about 13 episodes from now ) before i pass judgement this time.

datdude wrote:Moving on . . .


I also hope I'm wrong about omniverse and their more to this show then meet the else to quote a giant robot. I mean adventure time went for god knows how many episodes before the big questions in all that fans minds turned to the back story.

I've realized the past week or so that a lot of my problem "with the show" came from how Derek J Wyatt answers questions on forum spring. It was wrong of me to take one guy being a jerk on the internet out on an entire show.

So I'm going to give omniverse to the halfway point ( episode 30 about 13 episodes from now ) before i pass judgement this time.

It's his fs and people tend to be really retarded in it. He can be as much of a jerk as he wants.

Lodestar's Advocate wrote:

datdude wrote:Moving on . . .


I also hope I'm wrong about omniverse and their more to this show then meet the else to quote a giant robot. I mean adventure time went for god knows how many episodes before the big questions in all that fans minds turned to the back story.

I've realized the past week or so that a lot of my problem "with the show" came from how Derek J Wyatt answers questions on forum spring. It was wrong of me to take one guy being a jerk on the internet out on an entire show.

So I'm going to give omniverse to the halfway point ( episode 30 about 13 episodes from now ) before i pass judgement this time.

It's his fs and people tend to be really retarded in it. He can be as much of a jerk as he wants.

Yep hes not dwayne who put a lot of time and effort into wining people over. Im over it . . . really i'm totally over it jerkface