The Ben 10 Reboot

AleSIr19 wrote:When you feel in the design, that some designer or artist make it with heart and soul and the design looks good, really good, then you can say that is really better.

I always feel in AF/UA that was missing all the time, i never feel the soul of the characters or their background in their design, they were all cool drawings made in a computer and for me that was boring.

I know how to make a dark, mature and serious design looks good with soul and heart, without needing it to look cold and boring, AF/UA were mediocre and never know what the hell they were doing.

That's a bold statement. But do you have anything to back up that claim? You've made it obvious that you hate AF/UA, just as I have stated my hatred for Omniverse. But I would never make a self-righteous claim that I could do better.

The Voice wrote:

AleSIr19 wrote:When you feel in the design, that some designer or artist make it with heart and soul and the design looks good, really good, then you can say that is really better.

I always feel in AF/UA that was missing all the time, i never feel the soul of the characters or their background in their design, they were all cool drawings made in a computer and for me that was boring.

I know how to make a dark, mature and serious design looks good with soul and heart, without needing it to look cold and boring, AF/UA were mediocre and never know what the hell they were doing.

That's a bold statement. But do you have anything to back up that claim? You've made it obvious that you hate AF/UA, just as I have stated my hatred for Omniverse. But  I would never make a self-righteous claim that I could do better.

While i dont agree with all the bickering about which series was best and which one was pure malarkey because everyone has there own opinion even though i love every series just the same i do have to agree with The Voice on this one AlesIr19 These artist have spent years probably been to school and i know it would make me feel bad if someone told me the work i was doing was crud and boring so please dont just be kind to the people of the forum but be kind to the crew members that make ben 10 possible.

I dont hate AF/UA, for me AF is the best along the original series when you talk about the development of the relationships and how they created from zero new ways to act and personalities for Ben, Gwen, Kevin and a lot of the villains...

But i believe the design was awful and i dont feel wrong about the designers, i feel the department of design of AF/UA never knew how the things have to be made, Derrick J. Wyatt alredy say it before and the show never had done nothing more that make me see that because the same designers with a new "boss" make the best design ever we could have ask.

That is right, i dont blame the designers, because i know how wrong the art department and his "chief" was, i am not a fan of the design of Justice League, in the same way i wasnt of Batman Beyond or all the DC Animated Universe series that use that boring and lame american art style of Batman: The Animated Series, the design in that series fit because the series try to be serious and because it follow the Burton style, but the other series for me needed a little bit more of art and less of boring old lines, for me Young Justice is a nice way to change how that boring design is and become it interesting.

Why i cant say something like "AF/UA are bad series and dont make sense, bad development of the plot, nonsense and inmature plot devices and characters that clash with the desperate attempt of being serious, mature and dark, bad design, boring desing, cliche and boring use of the Omnitrix, etc..."?

Because that are facts my friend, in the same way i can say "Omniverse lost his way, become too stupid and fool, the comedy took over the characters and the plots, they make filler episodes for make them and a lot were only a lot of stupid comedy not sense and the relationships, the relationships were all wrong".

Like i know this facts i can say what it good and what is bad, in this same way i can say to you what elements of both series the creators should mix to create the best series they can give to us the fans.

A series that dont fail in the theme, genre and tone, that give us a good plot, that have a new and good art style that follow really good the genre and tone of the series, the development of character and the relationships.

In other words:

A series that follow the tone, genre and themes, in the way the original series or Omniverse did, but dont fail in the try in the same way AF or UA did.

A good design that follow that tone and genre right, giving to us the theme and message really clear:

-Like the original series did,

-AF/UA tried but the design become boring, mediocre and simple in the aliens and ambients (like Galvan Prime that is the worst design i never see it was awful, everything was the same),

-Omniverse in the other way did it good, because the theme was the diversity of the alien world and the human one, the tone was a comic, colorful and serious sometimes one, the genre was the action and adventure, but that later change to comedy and action.

So if the series is serious the plots have to be serious and know how to mix jokes, not put a fricking huge Vilgax of 5 meters or look childish while trying to present a serious theme, the design can be serious and muted, but never boring, it need good and complex line work and details, because if the aliens dont have detail and everything is simple and doll then it will become boring.

AleSIr19 wrote:Why i cant say something like "AF/UA are bad series and dont make sense, bad development of the plot, nonsense and inmature plot devices and characters that clash with the desperate attempt of being serious, mature and dark, bad design, boring desing, cliche and boring use of the Omnitrix, etc..."?

Because that are facts my friend, in the same way i can say "Omniverse lost his way, become too stupid and fool, the comedy took over the characters and the plots, they make filler episodes for make them and a lot were only a lot of stupid comedy not sense and the relationships, the relationships were all wrong".

Like i know this facts i can say what it good and what is bad, in this same way i can say to you what elements of both series the creators should mix to create the best series they can give to us the fans.

Ugh my computer turned off so now i have to rewrite the whole post
FACT FACT FACT that gets me so mad i just wanna .
What your saying is in fact not a fact and you clearly dont know the meaning of fact. Here is what fact means for future reference a thing that is indisputably the case. What you think is a fact is a opinion which the definition for that is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. Heres some examples to help clarify Ben 10 got the omnitrix at age 10 fact the year as of right now is 2015 fact marvel is better the dc and vice versa opinion Ben 10 is the best CN show ever opinion. You cannot say that AF/UA being a boring design to you is a fact because everyone has different opinions. Theres people that love AF/UAs design and think omniverses is complete shit theres people like you that love omniverses design but think af/ua is boring and theres people like me that love every ben 10 show for what it is. So please dont say fact when its clearly a opinion. No offence by the way.

Men, i really wish AF could had been better, because the series was cool and i liked how the relationships were made, but sadly the show was contradictory about his own genre and tone, in some episodes the writers created villains and even entire plots to make out a good message and to spotlight the relationships between some characters.

Like in "All That Glitters" or "Save The Last Dance", that for me are some of the best episodes to the tone of the series, because they are mature, dark and serious, even they have a mysterious tone around the events.

But something all the episodes had in AF and make them see silly was huge plot holes, the details, the show never had interest in explain to us the audience the little (but more important) details.

Like in "All That Glitters" were i ask myself all the episode how Michael Morningstar find that plumber plate, yes i know his fathers give to him, but that mean they are plumbers and if that is the case them were are they, he steal the plate? Even a human being can steal a plumber plate? and all that buildings he had, were he get them, from his fathers?

A lot of this questions i have to figure out myself ruin the episode, in the Highbreed episodes the plot holes are worse because then a lot of thing dont make sense and all the audience needed was a sentence giving some information.

The problem of create a new show and break continuity shameless and continuously, because it was a soft or even a hard reboot, like Alien Force did, is that when it also follow, use elements and characters from the old history or show that is rebooting and dont give any details about how all of a sudden the things change, We end again with contradictions and huge plot holes.

Because the Plumbers was an earth organization in the original series, one that was created by the NASA to explore and discover space, even worst in the original series the Plumbers they were out of service.

And when all of a sudden you reboot that in AF and dont give any details and how big the organization is and how the hell the organization that was created by humans is now created by aliens, even worst the organization is operative then we end up with huge plot holes.

Because believe or not until Omniverse, we never knew how the hell the plumbers came to be in service again, how big or even if they were any more plumbers in the earth and for some reason some kids had Plumber Plates, when they should not have them in the first case because that is a intergalactic police force and you cant play with that kind of things.

The Design is not bad because i say it, is because it is, the style of design they are using is call "Classic American Cartoon Shit" and i like to draw like that, i have seen a lot of shows and only DC Animated shows dare to use that thing, because they try to copy the old magic of the comic strips and comic books old artist that use a lot the clean and simple line work.

But in Comics the Art work is more detail, is more complex and of course is better, because they use better the line work, the shadows and the colors.

In "Batman: The Animated Series", "Superman: The Animated Series", "Batman Beyond", "Justice League", "Justice League Unlimited" even "Static Shock" (that have one of the most horribles designs ever) begin to use this style of drawing.

Really clean, really simple and with basic colors, the problem is that was boring like shit, because again they never get to the level of detail using lines and details in the same way comic book artist do and even worst the color palette was too flat.

In other words, what is good for some one because the tone and genre fit the drawing style (Batman) doesnt mean fits for every single one (Green Latern, Static Shock, Flash, a lot of DC Superheroes, even Superman).

That is the reason why for me "The Batman" design is better in some level that the one use in "Batman: The Animated Series" because even if both series are about the same character, each other find his own way to look and feel dark, mature and mysterious in his own drawing style and for me that is what make good a series.

Teen Titans is another example of how to make interesting this flat and cheap looking design, Young Justice was the first series i believe in use the new clean american style of DC Animated Universe, one that was more realistic, less flat and with more range of shadows and colors.

For me Ben 10: Alien Force and Ultimate Alien Design was bad, not because i believe is bad, but because i know they could had done something better, more realistic and less cartoony, something less flat and cheap, more realistic and interesting to the view.

And also i believe the background aliens use in a lot of scenes, look draw by a 5 years old kid and i am not kidding search the background aliens and you will see how low the design in AF/UA was, the same happen a lot with the key frames of the animation, who always had this strange and really bad draw shapes of face like in Dragon Ball.

AleSIr19 wrote:The problem of create a new show and break continuity shameless and continuously, because it was a soft or even a hard reboot, like Alien Force did, is that when it also follow, use elements and characters from the old history or show that is rebooting and dont give any details about how all of a sudden the things change, We end again with contradictions and huge plot holes.

Because the Plumbers was an earth organization in the original series, one that was created by the NASA to explore and discover space, even worst in the original series the Plumbers they were out of service.

And when all of a sudden you reboot that in AF and dont give any details and how big the organization is and how the hell the organization that was created by humans is now created by aliens, even worst the organization is operative then we end up with huge plot holes.

Because believe or not until Omniverse, we never knew how the hell the plumbers came to be in service again, how big or even if they were any more plumbers in the earth and for some reason some kids had Plumber Plates, when they should not have them in the first case because that is a intergalactic police force and you cant play with that kind of things.

Actually it was shown in omniverse that the plumbers or should i say the Plumbiers were created by humans and also please dont double post just put everything you want to say in one post its very annoying to see 5 posts by one person

This guy is annoying me to no end, and is obviously intent pushing his opinion till we all agree with him. He talks like a art critic but he's just a bias angsty teen I've heard this all before this guy's no different it's just bluster, you can keep talking with these 'facts' and such till you are blue in the face but you not changing any minds here also I think you might lack something called imagination.

In the original series of Ben 10, they talk over and over again in how the plumbers were created by the NASA and by the humans.

If you dont believe me then go to see:

"Secrets", "Truth", "The Return", "Be Afraid of the Dark", "Ben 10 vs. The Negative 10: Part 1 and 2".

In "Secrets", Ben discover that his grandpa Max was the one that stop and almost kill Vilgax many years ago, in another episode we discover that Xylene ship was going to give the Omnitrix to Max but then she was attacked by Vilgax forces.

In "Thruth", we discover that Max is part of a bigger organization call the "Plumbers" that Works for the goverment of the USA and they deal with alien stuff, the parnet of Max in this organization was call Phil.

In "The Return" and "Be Afraid of the Dark", we discover that Max was also part of the NASA before he decide to be a Plumber and he was mean to be the first men in the moon, but he never wanted this kind of fame and he prefer to become a Plumber.

In "Ben 10 vs. The Negative 10", we discover that the Plumbers had unused or inactive warehouses around the United States.

But then Alien Force came to air and change everything, because it was a "soft" reboot...

They decide to make the Plumbers an intergalactic police force, they redesign the suits and change even the plate of the force, deciding the Omnitrix symbol was better because the AF design department was mediocre and lazy, without any imagination to decide some other symbol and use of the imagination could be right.

In other words, Omniverse only take the alredy say by the 3 series and make it better and more strongh.

The Voice wrote:This guy is annoying me to no end, and is obviously intent pushing his opinion till we all agree with him. He talks like a art critic but he's just a bias angsty teen I've heard this all before this guy's no different it's just bluster. Here's a quote for thought, "An animator is an actor with a pencil." - Chuck Jones

If you had Heard this before, that mean they are a lot of people out there that also understand how bad and how good AF/UA could be, AF and UA was a bipolar series, one of that rare series you hate but in the same way you love, is like i love but hate AF and UA to death, because both had great elements but great, stupid and nonsense flaws.

Is like Omniverse in some sense, because that series also had a lot of love and hate.

I was only saying what part of what series are better and how if the creators find the way to mix them they could give to us the fans a great series.

I had seen a lot of tv and movies, also i had write and draw a lot, so i know about my bussines, because i love to write and draw comics, also to write movie scripts, so i only know, when something is good or is bad.

And AF is a mix bag of the two things.

AleSIr19 wrote:In the original series of Ben 10, they talk over and over again in how the plumbers were created by the NASA and by the humans.

If you dont believe me then go to see:

"Secrets", "Truth", "The Return", "Be Afraid of the Dark", "Ben 10 vs. The Negative 10: Part 1 and 2".

In "Secrets", Ben discover that his grandpa Max was the one that stop and almost kill Vilgax many years ago, in another episode we discover that Xylene ship was going to give the Omnitrix to Max but then she was attacked by Vilgax forces.

In "Thruth", we discover that Max is part of a bigger organization call the "Plumbers" that Works for the goverment of the USA and they deal with alien stuff, the parnet of Max in this organization was call Phil.

In "The Return" and "Be Afraid of the Dark", we discover that Max was also part of the NASA before he decide to be a Plumber and he was mean to be the first men in the moon, but he never wanted this kind of fame and he prefer to become a Plumber.

In "Ben 10 vs. The Negative 10", we discover that the Plumbers had unused or inactive warehouses around the United States.

But then Alien Force came to air and change everything, because it was a "soft" reboot...

They decide to make the Plumbers an intergalactic police force, they redesign the suits and change even the plate of the force, deciding the Omnitrix symbol was better because the AF design department was mediocre and lazy, without any imagination to decide some other symbol and use of the imagination could be right.

In other words, Omniverse only take the alredy say by the 3 series and make it better and more strongh.

DUDE STOP DOUBLE POSTING SERIOUSLY HOW HARD IS IT TO PUT EVERYTHING IN ONE POST. Anyways the plumbers were created by humans dont believe watch the final episode of omniverse. They couldve been restarted by nasa but they werent originally created by nasa.

AleSIr19 wrote:

The Voice wrote:This guy is annoying me to no end, and is obviously intent pushing his opinion till we all agree with him. He talks like a art critic but he's just a bias angsty teen I've heard this all before this guy's no different it's just bluster. Here's a quote for thought, "An animator is an actor with a pencil." - Chuck Jones

If you had Heard this before, that mean they are a lot of people out there that also understand how bad and how good AF/UA could be, AF and UA was a bipolar series, one of that rare series you hate but in the same way you love, is like i love but hate AF and UA to death, because both had great elements but great, stupid and nonsense flaws.

Is like Omniverse in some sense, because that series also had a lot of love and hate.

I was only saying what part of what series are better and how if the creators find the way to mix them they could give to us the fans a great series.

I had seen a lot of tv and movies, also i had write and draw a lot, so i know about my bussines, because i love to write and draw comics, also to write movie scripts, so i only know, when something is good or is bad.

And AF is a mix bag of the two things.

There's that self-righteousness again, you think just because you write, draw and what not somehow makes you all knowing?

Reading through all of this nonsense was insane, i post very rarely on this site but am always keeping up to date with posts. AleSIr19, you are the type of fans i hate. First of all you don't work on the show, so therefore you know nothing about the enormous hard work that goes into animation along with the time limit they have to make an episode. Second, you say you're a writer but your writing is woeful. Third, each show is a different iteration of "Ben 10" that can be considered "sequels" or "spin offs" AF, UA, Omniverse could all essentially stand alone. I say that because Man Of Action haven't written an episode since the original series and they were the creators so unless they came back for a new series the original series is the only one thats canon. Omniverse's art style is beautifully animated in comparison to AF and UA along with the character designs that everybody trashed at first sight. The writing is ten times better and the stories expanded the Ben 10 Universe greatly while giving us a wide range of new and old characters. They destroyed all the flaws within AF/UA. Plus you have to realise this is a kids show at the end of the day, kids don't care for continuity. Nor do i if the elements of the show improve what came before it. So stop being a snob. Peace.

I know how much work it is need to make "work" and to make out a single episode of a tv show, but that never will be a excuse i believe for the creators to be lazy, to reject good artwork from their own designers and only take the one that follows and can adapt the lines of their own design cheap design, when they could had done something more creative and complex.

In the same way i will never be happy in how the story is make out and something will always fail that is clear and that will always happen, the mistakes and flaws will be always there.

I know every single show had a tone, because the first 3 were into the same genre: Adventure/Action and Omniverse was more about the Action/Comedy to the end of the series.

I know Ben 10 was a mix of road movie genre and sci-fi.

Alien Force was a mix of thriller, suspense, mystery, a lot of sci-fi and like to play with themes like teenagers in the run, after high school 3 teen agers fight in the middle of the night a secret out space invasion to his own town.

Ultimate Alien go right into the sci-fi and road movie genre again, but was almost every single time a new theme a mix of things.

Omniverse was more about the sci-fi, again the road movie genre and the main theme of the 60 episodes, was "Now that Ben is the hero of the earth and the savior of the universe, know his own "little" human world will mix with this huge Alien culture".

Maybe i am not from the United States, but i love to write and create, the rule #1 in every creative project is and will forever be: "Dont be lazy, be creative, if it hard to do and is not cheap then is good, rewrite a lot, rethink a lot and find it a way to work".

For me Alien Force will be forever a nice mix bag of good and bad items, because the tone is good, the general plot line of the Highbreed and Vilgax story is good, some "filler" episodes are the best one developing all an episode around two characters and their relationship, creating themes, messages and even villains from zero only to do that, but the design, the use of the Omnitrix and the way the show was made make it full of plot holes and mistakes you cant avoid to see.

Let's all just agree to disagree and move on shall we?

If this new series or Reboot, have a good, creative and interesting art style of drawing we will be good.

If the writers develop and create in a interesting way the Ben, Gwen, Kevin and Max Characters we will be good.

If the writers make relationships between characters develop and be part of the center of the action, history and episodes we will be good.

Most important if the plots are good and if they develop well all the action without becoming contradictory or creating huge plot holes, we will be good.

In another words:

Ben 10 original series character development and relationships, style of plots, character design.

Alien Force character development and relationships.

Ultimate Alien character development and relationships.

Omniverse character development and relationships (especially between hero and villain, between Ben and Gwen/Kevin/Rook), style of plots, character design.

If you mix this 3 different types of doing the things then you will have a really good reboot.

AleSIr19 wrote:If this new series or Reboot, have a good, creative and interesting art style of drawing we will be good.

If the writers develop and create in a interesting way the Ben, Gwen, Kevin and Max Characters we will be good.

If the writers make relationships between characters develop and be part of the center of the action, history and episodes we will be good.

Most important if the plots are good and if they develop well all the action without becoming contradictory or creating huge plot holes, we will be good.

In another words:

Ben 10 original series character development and relationships, style of plots, character design.

Alien Force character development and relationships.

Ultimate Alien character development and relationships.

Omniverse character development and relationships (especially between hero and villain, between Ben and Gwen/Kevin/Rook), style of plots, character design.

If you mix this 3 different types of doing the things then you will have a really good reboot.

If there would be new development and relationships, there could be new conflict also if any minor character saw Ben as an alien in the reboot, they might become the new villian. I know it sound crasy but, I have 2 suspects that might become villians that could try to kill Ben and make the Tennyson family pay. my 2 suspects are the Hotel Guard (Kevin 11) and And Brad the water park attendent.

Forgive me for my craziness, but I can't get them out of my head. They keep haunting me ever sense the original show came out.

jesse220 wrote:

AleSIr19 wrote:If this new series or Reboot, have a good, creative and interesting art style of drawing we will be good.

If the writers develop and create in a interesting way the Ben, Gwen, Kevin and Max Characters we will be good.

If the writers make relationships between characters develop and be part of the center of the action, history and episodes we will be good.

Most important if the plots are good and if they develop well all the action without becoming contradictory or creating huge plot holes, we will be good.

In another words:

Ben 10 original series character development and relationships, style of plots, character design.

Alien Force character development and relationships.

Ultimate Alien character development and relationships.

Omniverse character development and relationships (especially between hero and villain, between Ben and Gwen/Kevin/Rook), style of plots, character design.

If you mix this 3 different types of doing the things then you will have a really good reboot.

If there would be new development and relationships, there could be new conflict also if any minor character saw Ben as an alien in the reboot, they might become the new villian. I know it sound crasy but, I have 2 suspects that might become villians that could try to kill Ben and make the Tennyson family pay. my 2 suspects are the Hotel Guard (Kevin 11) and And Brad the water park attendent.

Forgive me for my craziness, but I can't get them out of my head. They keep haunting me ever sense the original show came out.

What the hell are you talking about?

In the original series, Kevin 11 become a villain, because he feel alone, he never had a family, he lived in the streets and when he saw Ben had everything he never had (a family, all the power, the Omnitrix) he wanted to had that.

That is the reason why Kevin become a villain and why he become a character so interesting, because he had reasons to be bad.

AleSIr19 wrote:

jesse220 wrote:

AleSIr19 wrote:If this new series or Reboot, have a good, creative and interesting art style of drawing we will be good.

If the writers develop and create in a interesting way the Ben, Gwen, Kevin and Max Characters we will be good.

If the writers make relationships between characters develop and be part of the center of the action, history and episodes we will be good.

Most important if the plots are good and if they develop well all the action without becoming contradictory or creating huge plot holes, we will be good.

In another words:

Ben 10 original series character development and relationships, style of plots, character design.

Alien Force character development and relationships.

Ultimate Alien character development and relationships.

Omniverse character development and relationships (especially between hero and villain, between Ben and Gwen/Kevin/Rook), style of plots, character design.

If you mix this 3 different types of doing the things then you will have a really good reboot.

If there would be new development and relationships, there could be new conflict also if any minor character saw Ben as an alien in the reboot, they might become the new villian. I know it sound crasy but, I have 2 suspects that might become villians that could try to kill Ben and make the Tennyson family pay. my 2 suspects are the Hotel Guard (Kevin 11) and And Brad the water park attendent.

Forgive me for my craziness, but I can't get them out of my head. They keep haunting me ever sense the original show came out.

What the hell are you talking about?

In the original series, Kevin 11 become a villain, because he feel alone, he never had a family, he lived in the streets and when he saw Ben had everything he never had (a family, all the power, the Omnitrix) he wanted to had that.

That is the reason why Kevin become a villain and why he become a character so interesting, because he had reasons to be bad.

ok guys we need to stop all this bickering i mean seriously this is supposed to be a thread about the reboot not what wrong with the shows that came before you are way off topic and this is exactly the reason we need a moderator or an admin or something to keep this forum under control if only i could apply for such a position because this topic thread is getting way out control can we not just talk about our hopes for the franchise instead of the bad stuff that came before.

Look I'm sorry but I'm trying to say is if the Hotel Guard that booted the Tennyson out of the Hotel discovred that Ben is an alien, he would become the new villain by starting an organization against Ben and his family. And I Know Kevin became bad because he was alone, but I think it's still is a good idea for the reboot.

If Kevin would be a villian in the reboot, then the guard would have to be a new villian, and I'm guessing that the guard would be a military villian

jesse220 wrote:Look I'm sorry but I'm trying to say is if the Hotel Guard that booted the Tennyson out of the Hotel discovred that Ben is an alien, he would become the new villain by starting an organization against Ben and his family. And I Know Kevin became bad because he was alone, but I think it's still is a good idea for the reboot.

If Kevin would be a villian in the reboot, then the guard would have to be a new villian, and I'm guessing that the guard would be a military villian

i doubt theyd reboot such a minor character i mean barely anyone besides you remember him im not trying to be rude but really hes a hotel guard not some big villian he barely had 1 line.